Author Topic: Blade alignment/position  (Read 2834 times)

Ashley111

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Blade alignment/position
« on: February 16, 2023, 06:24:52 pm »
Hi fellow skaters,

Recently I have been wondering if the problems I have with some things may be due to the alignment of my blades (I wouldn‘t say my posture is not a problem at all though).

What I have noticed are the following things:
- It‘s incredibly hard for me to get on an outside edge with my right skate (I can do it, but it’s definitely harder than with my left skate).

- When I do one foot power pulls, I can’t really shift my weight to the inside edge on my left foot (it feels like I am always on the outside edge when going left or right on one foot and when I do get on the inside, I almost immediately have to put my other foot down and can‘t continue). With my right foot, I can get onto the inside edge, but have trouble getting on the outside edge immediately afterwards.

- When I do inside three turns, they generally feel natural on the right foot, but no matter how hard I try, I can‘t get my foot to stay in front after the turn (it always stays back and I can hold that position like in jump endings forever). With my left foot it‘s the other way round. I absolutely fear inside three turns as they don’t feel natural and I can only do them with my foot close/in front during the turn and in front after the turn (I can‘t curve nearly as deep as with my right skate). That‘s totally weird.

- When I close my eyes and skate on one foot, my right foot doesn‘t follow the line on the ground, but does a curve (to the inside/right) when going forwards.

- When I try to go into a one foot spin (I spin on my left foot), it seems a little bit like I‘m twisted to the left with my balance. I have an absolutely hard time holding the left entry edge long enough as my curve doesn‘t really get smaller (I have spent ages to find my sweet spot and how to put pressure on my left little toe to create  a smaller entry edge, which works, but only when the left leg is bent and the right foot follows on the ground and as I said with the feeling that I‘m a bit twisted to the left when I finally spin). 

- When doing back spins (I can only manage one revolution so far), I can‘t really get my weight over the right position. As soon as I try to put the pressure on my right little toe, I tend to lose balance (I can mostly save myself by putting my foot down, but it just doesn‘t feel right). But I definitely also need more practise there.

So what I was thinking is that my left blade might need to be moved to the inside a little bit to help me balance on my inside edge more easily. Furthermore, my right blade needs adjustment so that I can glide in a straight line and the blade needs to be moved to the outside a bit more to make it possible to get to an outside edge without too much effort. Does that make sense or am I completely wrong?

I have attached a photo with my current blades. Unfortunately, my coach can‘t really assess if something is wrong with the blades and the next skate fitter/sharpener is about 2 hours away. As regards my skill level: I‘m working on different spins (upright, corkscrew, sit (my absolute favourite, I just need a bit more strength to get lower so that it is counted as a real sit), scratch (have only started it)), jumps (three jump, salchow, toe loop, loop, flip (the first three are not that bad; I started to learn the last two not that long ago so still a lot of work necessary there)), moves (hydroblade, cannonball forwards/backwards, lunge, spiral, …(all of which I totally love)) and I have no problems holding one foot glides to a standstill. I bought my skates and blades online, but it‘s my second pair of skates and they are the same boots/blades which I got fitted by a professional (I had horrible blade sharpening stories with the old skates, which is why I bought the second pair in the first place, but that‘s a different story. My current sharpener is really good.) Furthermore, I have custom insoles as some inner part of my foot doesn‘t have contact with the ground. This definitely improved my skating as I have a lot more control now over what I’m doing so that problem was solved. By the way, I have been skating in my current pair of skates for about two seasons so one should think I have got used to them by now.

I would really appreciate your help. Thanks everyone!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2023, 10:24:44 pm by Ashley111 »

spinZZ

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Re: Blade alignment/position
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2023, 10:12:37 am »
...

- It‘s incredibly hard for me to get on an outside edge with my right skate (I can do it, but it’s definitely harder than with my left skate).

- When I do one foot power pulls, I can’t really shift my weight to the inside edge on my left foot (it feels like I am always on the outside edge when going left or right on one foot and when I do get on the inside, I almost immediately have to put my other foot down and can‘t continue). With my right foot, I can get onto the inside edge, but have trouble getting on the outside edge immediately afterwards.

...

- When I close my eyes and skate on one foot, my right foot doesn‘t follow the line on the ground, but does a curve (to the inside/right) when going forwards.

...

So what I was thinking is that my left blade might need to be moved to the inside a little bit to help me balance on my inside edge more easily. Furthermore, my right blade needs adjustment so that I can glide in a straight line and the blade needs to be moved to the outside a bit more to make it possible to get to an outside edge without too much effort. Does that make sense or am I completely wrong?

...

My current sharpener is really good.

You have a lot packed into your post.  I've extracted key points I'll address.

(1) How do you know your current sharpener is really good?  Do you have the knowledge and the tools to check the quality of the sharpening?  Before considering positioning/alignment of the blades, it's critical to first check that edges are level.  Edges that are substantially off-level will bias your inside/outside edges.

(2) If you want to correct for edge bias by moving the blade inside/outside, you've got things reversed.  If you are having a hard time getting on to an outside edge, you want to move the blade to the inside.  If you are having a hard time getting on to an inside edge, you want to move the blade to the outside.  If you want the explanation for why, let me know, but I'll skip the details for now.

(3) To  check for edge bias, please don't skate with your eyes closed.  I see that suggestion popping up now and then on the Internet.  First, it's potentially dangerous, of course.  Second, it biases your test results, since it's unnatural to skate that way.

Ideally, go onto clean ice and have another skater (friend, instructor, coach) with you as an observer.  Do not sight along a straight line (such as a hockey line or the edge of the boards).  Do not focus on a single object as a target.  You don't want to do anything to skew your test results.

Stroke forward to get up some speed.  Glide on two feet.  Then lift one foot slightly for a one-foot glide; e.g., the blade of the free foot is next to the ankle of the skating foot.  Don't try to control the blade on the skating foot; let the blade take you where it wants.  Repeat forward with the other foot.  Then repeat the two one-foot glides when gliding backward.

When you are skating forward, the other person should look at you from the back and check whether you're gliding straight, veering to the right, or veering to the left.  Similarly, when you are skating backward, the other person should look at you from the front.  If you are skating on clean ice, you can also afterwards check the tracings on the ice, both to check the path of your glides and to check whether the inside and outside edges have equal weight.

(4) Depending on how strong an edge bias you have, correction may entail one or more of the following:  (a) blade positioning/alignment, (b) corrective insoles, (c) shimming the blades.

I'll stop here for now.  If you need more details, let me know.

ETA:  From your photos, I've noticed that almost all the mounting screws have been installed.  Blade positioning/alignment issues should have been resolved with a temp mount:  only two screws in the elongated slots in the sole plate and only two screws in the elongated slots in the heel plate.  That way there's far fewer holes to plug and re-drill should you need to move/realign the blade.


« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 01:12:52 pm by spinZZ »

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: Blade alignment/position
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2023, 03:35:20 pm »
"Unfortunately, my coach can‘t really assess if something is wrong with the blades"


Does your coach think there might be something wrong with your skating?  Posture?  Knee alignment?  Hip alignment?  Leg length?  There could be some physical imbalance that you need to compensate for somehow.


FWIW I can't do a proper RFO edge, after 17 years of trying.

Ashley111

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Re: Blade alignment/position
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2023, 07:22:00 pm »
Hi everyone,

Thanks for your helpful replies. Last year I decided to work on my technique first before blaming the skates. Well, I‘ve worked a lot on and off ice since this time with great progress in terms of balance, flexibility and so on, but this did not show on ice at all (well, I did make progress, but basic skills like simple crossovers did not improve, it still felt like I was someone doing a strange move when bringing my left foot over when doing back crossovers anticlockwise or slipping with my right blade when doing forward crossovers clockwise). This was just soo frustrating because nobody could really help me as everyone said the technique is correct. So this year I‘ve decided to but a new pair of skates (Edea, but with the same blades „MK Professional“ and I was shocked: Suddenly, I was on a real inside edge when doing crossovers clockwise and even backward power pulls with the left leg were much smoother (I always had the feeling I was always too far on the left with my weight, which felt like I was on my outside edge the entire time) because I could distribute my weight on the inside edge as well. With my right skate I could suddenly lean on a true outside edge comfortably. So I definitely know that my practice paid off and stock boots/solutions might not be right for me.

Now I have two things I need your advice on: My left skate glides in a straight line when going forward on the new boot, but in rather an extreme inside edge curve when going backwards. What needs adjustment here? The front or the back part of the blade and to the inside or outside (I would really like to be able to get on an inside edge with that skate even more). Secondly my right skate lets me skate straight going backward and forwards, but I would like to be able to be more on the outside edge without diffiulties so should the blade be moved to the left or right? Next problem: Although I asked for a permanent mounting, the seller put more screws in, which means I likely have  to get some of the Holes in the Edea skate filled? How does that work? My shop has never ever done blade adjustment according to the person, but only mounting blades in the „normal“ way so that‘s why I‘m asking.

By the way: When looking at my shoes soles, the outside part is worn and not the inside (I have a high arch on the inner part of my foot), so I guess supination is a problem that I have. The old skates have insoles to deal with the missing contact of the inner part of my foot with the boot and this has improved my skating, but the above mentioned problems occured nevertheless. I haven’t tried the other insoles than the normal Edea ones in my new skate so I haven’t had a chance to check out if that would change anything, but like I said the Edea already felt better from the first skate (and boy, my ankles hurt, but the skate fits great). Another question: I have noticed that the Edea is much smaller in the toe region than my Risport (same size) and in my Risport I could wiggle my toes a lot, which I can‘t do nearly as much in the Edea. Could that mean that the Risport boot is too wide or long (personally comparing the two, I like the fit of the Edea much better and the higher heel is not really a problem (in fact, it feels pretty natural from the start, but going back to my old skates I do notice that I need to get used to the lower heel again, which is weird because I have been skating in them for three years and only three times int the Edeas so far)? Last but not least: Compared to my Risport skates, my blade tracings on the ice are even on both feet and edges on both feet, but in my Risport right skate I seem to be standing on an outside edge (or at least it feels like leaning more towards that edge) even when standing still or gliding in a straight line. Why ist that the case? The blades are he same and the sharpening is also the same from the same sharpener (who I trust as top skaters in my region also go to him). 

Thanks so much for your help. Merry Christmas everyone and happy skating!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2023, 07:33:52 pm by Ashley111 »

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: Blade alignment/position
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2023, 07:29:54 pm »
I'm not qualified to answer your questions sadly but thanks for updating us and I am really glad you've seen improvement and it must be a great feeling to see your hard work pay off.  I wish you a lifetime of happy skating.  Just done a session myself, best feeling in the world.

WednesdayMarch

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Re: Blade alignment/position
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2023, 02:13:59 pm »
Best thing to do is ask your coach and skate tech. A bunch of random strangers on the internet can't see you, how you stand, move or skate.

Glad things are improving, though!
Returned to the ice in Sept 2017 after a major leg injury in 1999. Skating in Jackson Elite Pro & MK Vision Syncro. Still scary after all these years.

bikerwally

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Re: Blade alignment/position
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2023, 12:11:53 am »
Your question about filling the holes in the sole as well as complete blade mounting is explained in this video:
https://precisionblade.com/index.php/precision-blade-mounting/



 

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