Sheffield Camp July 2011

[transmissionoftheflame]

Can we please have ONE camp post where Paul and friends don't complain about the level? This is a camp to improve basics, if you can't do the basics (which are covered in skateuk 1-10) then there's nothing to work on.

I am not Paul or one of his friends.  I think there is always something to work on - you have to start somewhere and it is merely a question of having camps for various levels that benefit people and are targeted so that everyone knows what to expect up front.  People doing SkateUK would benefit from doing a camp for example just on forward stroking - I know I would have done at that time.  I think what is "basic" is in the eye of the beholder - to a beginner and to someone who perhaps doesn't have any ambition to move to NISA Level type activity backwards skating would seem advanced.

[ezika]

Would you really pay £100 to do basic stroking?

[transmissionoftheflame]

Would you really pay £100 to do basic stroking?

That would depend on a lot of things (who the teacher was, how many other people in the group, venue, conditions of rink etc etc) but I wouldn't rule it out.  As I am so thick and untalented it has taken me several years to really "get" correct forward skating.  I would pay for any lesson that I felt moved me forward from where I was regardless of how "basic" anyone thinks that particular element is.  I can't spin for toffee so I am paying my coach to take me back to the start and not doing much else in lessons at the moment (yes and practising a lot).

[batikat]

As far as I can see the camp was open to all levels.

 However I'm not sure a camp on finessing the basics is really suitable for people who are struggling on skate UK since at that level surely it's a question of just building more confidence, speed etc and the finesse on extensions, expression, soft knees bend, proper up/down movements in stroking and turns, perfecting crossovers would be beyond achieveability for them at this time and maybe even more frustrating to see the gap between beginners and more advanced skaters so clearly demonstrated.   Confident skaters on skate UK who find they pick up the basics quickly would probably benefit though.

[transmissionoftheflame]

However I'm not sure a camp on finessing the basics is really suitable for people who are struggling on skate UK since at that level surely it's a question of just building more confidence, speed etc and the finesse on extensions, expression, soft knees bend, proper up/down movements in stroking and turns, perfecting crossovers would be beyond achieveability for them at this time and maybe even more frustrating to see the gap between beginners and more advanced skaters so clearly demonstrated.   Confident skaters on skate UK who find they pick up the basics quickly would probably benefit though.

You make some good points.  It's a bit chicken and egg but I think confidence comes in part from good technique so whatever level you are at I think there's some value in taking something that you can do (badly) apart and working on making it more solid.  Guess a lot of this comes from the feeling that we rushed through SkateUK too fast and should have spent much longer on it.

[batikat]

You make some good points.  It's a bit chicken and egg but I think confidence comes in part from good technique so whatever level you are at I think there's some value in taking something that you can do (badly) apart and working on making it more solid.  Guess a lot of this comes from the feeling that we rushed through SkateUK too fast and should have spent much longer on it.

Surely the point of Skate UK is to give you the bare bones of skating.  If you waited to perfect forward stroking for example before moving to the next thing you'd never get beyond that since it can always be improved and even elite level competitive skaters practice them regularly.  Skate UK is a foundation level on which you build just as you get foundation levels in any other sport.  When you learn to swim you don't wait until your front crawl is perfect in every way before you learn any other stroke but you continually improve everything all the time and skating is the same.

  When you are a beginner struggling with balance and body position it's enough just to learn the most basic forms of skating technique as you simply don't have the skill level or confidence to understand the minor adjustments that can make a difference at a higher level.  Certainly it took me years before I could skate backwards without any scraping for example but now I could take on board the little things that make a difference and improve it further.

Skate Kitty's point was that you can't take apart a 3 turn or a backward crossover etc. if you cant do one at all or are still at the stage of being very scared of them. (You never completely lose the fear but with time and experience you learn how do 'do it anyway'!)

Skate UK 1-10 gives you the bare bones
Passport improves on them and introduces basics of the further NISA tests and then the NISA tests are where we start having to do things better and even then the same moves tend to recur and each time a higher level of execution is expected in order to pass.

[transmissionoftheflame]

Yes you are right but I still think that I would have benefitted from spending a bit more time (but not forever) on each set of bare bones before moving on, to reduce bad habits that I find hard to break.  I don't presume to speak for others but would hazard a guess that I am not the only one.

[batikat]

Yes you are right but I still think that I would have benefitted from spending a bit more time (but not forever) on each set of bare bones before moving on, to reduce bad habits that I find hard to break.  I don't presume to speak for others but would hazard a guess that I am not the only one.

When I did LTS classes the pupil:coach ratio was so bad that getting a minute of individual attention in a half hour lesson was good going.  More time on LTS would have just been more time to practice any bad habits so better to get through ASAP and go on to private lessons where technique could be properly and individually addressed. 

[mkp]

Sadly I can't make it but I've emailed Mark to let him know I'd be interested in the future so that hopefully he can build up to doing them regularly!

[SkateKitty]

I am not Paul or one of his friends.  I think there is always something to work on - you have to start somewhere and it is merely a question of having camps for various levels that benefit people and are targeted so that everyone knows what to expect up front.  People doing SkateUK would benefit from doing a camp for example just on forward stroking - I know I would have done at that time.  I think what is "basic" is in the eye of the beholder - to a beginner and to someone who perhaps doesn't have any ambition to move to NISA Level type activity backwards skating would seem advanced.

Oh for goodness sake. We've had this discussion already and ruined another thread about a camp. If you want to whine about camps then start a separate thread and keep it all in there, please just let posts about camps be about the actual camp.

[Paul 2]

Hi,

A post about this actual camp (and another one that may be run).

Speaking to Mark last night, he said he has about 10 skaters who have signed up, all who are NISA Level 1/2 in dance. He has had enquiries from about another ten.

I asked if it would be worth it for me to attend at SKUK level 6, he said I would be welcome, but he more or less said what batikat posted earlier "However I'm not sure a camp on finessing the basics is really suitable for people who are struggling on skate UK since at that level surely it's a question of just building more confidence, speed etc and the finesse on extensions, expression, soft knees bend, proper up/down movements in stroking and turns, perfecting crossovers would be beyond achieveability for them at this time and maybe even more frustrating to see the gap between beginners and more advanced skaters so clearly demonstrated."

I appreciated his honesty.

However, he did mention that there maybe a camp with some connection to Dancing on Ice, run for skaters who are on Skate UK , which he hopes to be coaching on. He will give me details when he has them, which I will post on here.

Paul