Author Topic: I can't break the habit of pushing off with my toe picks  (Read 868 times)

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: I can't break the habit of pushing off with my toe picks
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2019, 07:07:38 AM »
Irrespective of which direction you are skating in, the foot in the air is the free foot and the other foot is the skating foot.  In a chasse the outside foot is always the one you push with, I suppose tehnically it becomes the free foot once it leaves the ice.  The inside foot is normally the skating foot in a chasse except for the time when it leaves the ice.

joshuagordon1996

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Re: I can't break the habit of pushing off with my toe picks
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2019, 02:51:24 PM »
Irrespective of which direction you are skating in, the foot in the air is the free foot and the other foot is the skating foot.  In a chasse the outside foot is always the one you push with, I suppose tehnically it becomes the free foot once it leaves the ice.  The inside foot is normally the skating foot in a chasse except for the time when it leaves the ice.

Thanks for this. I went skating today and tried to implement what i've learnt over the past few days from your video links and from this thread, there was definitely improvement! I'm so happy, i know that it's just going to take a lot of practice and a lot of time, but it was a huge step forward today - the key thing for me is understanding where to shift my weight during my strokes, and practicising t-pushes helped too. Thank you so much!

spinZZ

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Re: I can't break the habit of pushing off with my toe picks
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2019, 08:41:14 PM »
Thanks for this, when i next go skating i'll spend a lot of time on t-pushes. That's really interesting about the regular stroking requiring a pushing blade at about 45 degrees. I've been trying to do regular stroking with my pushing blade at 90 degrees, trying not to use my toe picks, and it's felt so wrong and unnatural, as if i'm really forcing the movement (which can hardly be called movement anyway!).
So regular stroking with a 90 degree angle is completely wrong?
Haven't come across anyone doing that before.  Many beginner skaters push off their toepicks because they don't turnout their pushing blade at all (or enough).  But I can see if you are trying to stroke with your pushing foot turned at 90 degrees and placed to the side, you can't get a proper push and end up on your toepicks too.  As far as I know, you push with the blade at 90 degrees only during the T-push from a stationary position, and with the pushing foot crossed behind (not to the side) of the skating foot:  that gives you more power to propel you into motion from a standstill; it's a different stroking dynamic once you are in motion.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 08:43:25 PM by spinZZ »

joshuagordon1996

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Re: I can't break the habit of pushing off with my toe picks
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2019, 09:15:32 PM »
Haven't come across anyone doing that before.  Many beginner skaters push off their toepicks because they don't turnout their pushing blade at all (or enough).  But I can see if you are trying to stroke with your pushing foot turned at 90 degrees and placed to the side, you can't get a proper push and end up on your toepicks too.  As far as I know, you push with the blade at 90 degrees only during the T-push from a stationary position, and with the pushing foot crossed behind (not to the side) of the skating foot:  that gives you more power to propel you into motion from a standstill; it's a different stroking dynamic once you are in motion.

My normal stroking (with toe picks) isn't at 90 degrees, i only tried pushing with my foot at 90 degrees when i realised my skating form was wrong, and it didn't work at all, so i only tried it a few times.

Kateskater123

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Re: I can't break the habit of pushing off with my toe picks
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2019, 07:52:19 PM »
I can understand using the toe pick to get going from a standing start but if you are using them at every step that's pretty dangerous.  I spend most of my time thinking about getting my toe picks up to prevent them from tripping me up!   I'd say just push off with the toe pick if you have to get going, then just think about the centre of your foot pushing outwards and imagine a string pulling up your toe all the time you are skating.  with concentration you can do it. 

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: I can't break the habit of pushing off with my toe picks
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2019, 08:16:48 PM »
Not sure even just starting off pushing with the toe pick is a good idea - best to avoid completely.  You don't need them to push - they are for jumping and steps.  Hockey skates don't have toepicks.  It's all done with edge pressure.

spinZZ

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Re: I can't break the habit of pushing off with my toe picks
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2019, 04:23:52 PM »
I can understand using the toe pick to get going from a standing start but if you are using them at every step that's pretty dangerous.  I spend most of my time thinking about getting my toe picks up to prevent them from tripping me up!   I'd say just push off with the toe pick if you have to get going, then just think about the centre of your foot pushing outwards and imagine a string pulling up your toe all the time you are skating.  with concentration you can do it.
You don't want to push from your toepicks, even from a standing start.  That's how you develop bad habits:  you come to depend on the picks for a power push.  For a standing start, use the T-push that I described in my first post.  Power comes from proper placement and orientation of the pushing foot, and from a deep edge (as well as other factors).

WednesdayMarch

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Re: I can't break the habit of pushing off with my toe picks
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2019, 09:18:30 PM »
Power comes from proper placement and orientation of the pushing foot, and from a deep edge (as well as other factors).

Knee bend.  You need more knee bend than you ever thought possible.  And then some.

No toe-pushing.  You won't get any power from it and it will immediately throw your weight into the wrong place to even glide properly. 

Returned to the ice in Sept 2017 after a major leg injury in 1999. Skating in Graf Dance boots and MK Dance blades. It's still a bit slippery...

joshuagordon1996

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Re: I can't break the habit of pushing off with my toe picks
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2019, 08:25:39 PM »
Knee bend.  You need more knee bend than you ever thought possible.  And then some.

No toe-pushing.  You won't get any power from it and it will immediately throw your weight into the wrong place to even glide properly.

Yeah from what i've been trying, i would say that knee bending has helped me the most in terms of proper skating form. It has been difficult to do it consistently, and when i look at other skaters it doesn't really look like they're bending their knees much, even though their form looks good!

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: I can't break the habit of pushing off with my toe picks
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2019, 09:02:02 PM »
I know what you mean about knee bend.  I think it is hard to tell.  Maybe get someone to film you and then compare it to film of professional ice dancers.  I think you'll find that they don't look they are going down low but if you try to get down as low as them it will feel like you are sitting on the ice.

joshuagordon1996

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Re: I can't break the habit of pushing off with my toe picks
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2019, 10:25:31 AM »
Okay, i'll try and get someone to do this for me sometime!