Author Topic: Coach problems  (Read 1935 times)

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: Coach problems
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2017, 08:03:58 am »
I don't necessarily think you need to have Olympic aspirations to motivate you to work as hard as a prospective Olympian.  You just have to be the kind of person who wants to get the absolute best out of themselves.  I think if you can access that drive and attitude, and enjoy it at the same time, then your sport and your life become infinitely more enjoyable.  As a coach or friend or parent I think it's OK to try and help people get to this realisation.  In general, best done gently though.  Not everyone is like me, we're on a spectrum of how much we are prepared to put in and how we want to live our lives.  I think the shouting method or similar aggressive or almost-bullying tactics might work with some but are simply too dangerous to employ.  I certainly don't feel qualified.  With adults you can reason it out with them and ask "how much do you really want an Axel?" or whatever.  It might work with a young person depending on age, level of development, character.  I don't think coaches should be going into that territory.  I'm not even sure parents should.  I've been harsh on my children (now grown up) when they have behaved badly towards others.  I have cajoled them (or tried) into putting more effort into things when I have felt they were slacking.  But it is risky.  I prefer coaches to inspire dedication in their students by being dedicated themselves, and showing what it's possible to achieve.  Some will understand, others won't.  Sometimes you have to let it go, frustrating as that is.

AndyinSwindon

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Re: Coach problems
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2017, 08:20:23 am »
I'm reading a very interesting book at the moment..."I can't believe you just said that" by Danny Wallace.  It's about the psychology of rudeness, how it affects people, and the massive consequences that even a seemingly small incident can lead to....it's very surprising, and actually quite shocking just how poor treatment affects us, and the butterfly effect it can have.  I know that there is a culture of harsh discipline in many fields, music, sports etc, but does it really get the best out of anyone?
Started skating 07.01.17
Currently working through NISA LTS Levels.
Currently wobbling through hockey LTP sessions.

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: Coach problems
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2017, 08:39:21 am »
I am glad calling you a fat cow did some good, but a better approach might have been "in order to skate in the way that you wish to, you need to be much fitter and stronger".  I like honesty in coaches and in fact find it frustrating and wrong when they pretend you have made progress even if you haven't, but "fat cow" is over the top.  I certainly would not go anywhere near the topic of weight with a teenage girl.  I have seen the results and it is not pretty.  As a parent you obviously shouldn't let your kids get fat, but I don't think it is for coaches to talk about that to child students.

Leif

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Re: Coach problems
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2017, 09:34:05 am »
I'm in the camp that hates verbal abuse and put downs. The reason I ended up doing well at school is because one teacher treated us with respect. Until then I did badly, and was regularly put down by teachers. On the rink some friends give me really good advice. One lad sometimes watches me skate, and points out what I am doing wrong, and how to correct it. Not abusive, critical yes, but helpful. I recently told a mate that I was well behind him when we raced, so he watched me skate, told me what I was doing wrong, demonstrated a fast sprint, and showed my how to improve my sprint. You have to want to learn. In my view there is no excuse for abusing someone, in some cases it bounces off like water on a ducks back, in other cases it can screw up the person big time.

When I see one of the young lads trying something, and not doing so well, I offer praise for what he is doing right, and suggest how he can do even better. In my view that encourages someone, but also allows them to improve if they want to. Watch the North American hockey camp videos on YouTube, they do exactly the same thing. Even in the Quebec French videos you regularly hear them say "Good job"!!!!! We all learn at different rates, and have different abilities.

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: Coach problems
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2017, 10:08:54 am »
Andy, that sounds like an interesting book.  If the person who is criticising me is someone whose views I respect, or the criticism rings true, my reaction is usually a positive one - I get more determined, aggressive, almost mad/angry.  If I think they're an idiot and the criticism is inaccurate I am able to ignore it.  But I am arrogant enough and foolish enough to believe that I do, can or should be able to do everything well, as long as I put the work in.  I have observed others react to criticism, especially if it is brutal or abusive, by simply getting demoralised.  If you're a coach you cannot adopt a one-size-fits-all approach to motivating people - though if you do then it should probably be the kind of approach Leif is describing - praise what IS working and give information about improving what isn't.

AndyinSwindon

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Re: Coach problems
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2017, 01:15:31 pm »
I tend to find that if I am criticised justly, then I take the criticism on board and work on rectifying my technique or approach, but if it's blatantly rude and condescending, I tend to fight fire with fire, but that's just me.  A friend I skate with often points out changes I could make to my posture, technique, etc, and I have learned a lot from his observations, but it's all to do with presentation of the information. If he shouted at me, called me useless, and belittled me, he'd probably have my ice skate embedded in his nether regions, but he is friendly, constructive, and positive in his approach.  I don't think on a general level that there is any excuse for bullying.  It's all about power without status.  The more power someone has, and the less real status they have, the more they tend to abuse that power and use it to make themselves feel good by belittling others.  And children are always an easy target.  As a comedian (I think it was Henry Rollins) said, making fun of the president (it was then G W Bush) is like punching out a 5 year old.....easy, but ultimately unsatisfying.

It's a bit like some people on internet forums.  Someone tries to gently correct someone over a trivial matter, such as use of terminology on, for example, oh I don't know, but plucking one out of the air, 'NISA levels', some people could get sensitive about it and harp on about it for evermore.

Glad I'm not one of those people.  ::)
Started skating 07.01.17
Currently working through NISA LTS Levels.
Currently wobbling through hockey LTP sessions.

katepilarr

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Re: Coach problems
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2017, 04:58:21 pm »
I know that there is a culture of harsh discipline in many fields, music, sports etc, but does it really get the best out of anyone?


i have often though about this with regards to skating. from what i can see in czech and british skating the british seem to have more rinks, more months of ice time a year, more coaches, more one to one lessons and very friendly approach. we have coaches with rude approach in my eyes that are now very much influenced by spending so much time in the UK. but we also have some very succesful skaters. dont think money is the difference /although dont know that much about financing the sport in either country/. is it the approach that makes the difference??! i honestly dont know.


but when i reach out of skating, i can see how much  this affects people in life.  its a very different athmosphere in the society if that makes any sence.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 05:00:24 pm by katepilarr »
skating in Prague and Elgin, Scotland
working on L1 and L2 field moves, upright spin& backspin, single jumps upto loop
www.youtube.com/user/catepilarr

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: Coach problems
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2017, 05:07:58 pm »
Harsh discipline undoubtedly works for some, just creates casualties along the way.  I don't think the skaters or tennis players or dancers I love to watch the most were/are motivated by fear of their coach.  We are a bit too wishy washy here probably.  I think you can highly motivated, focused, success oriented, have high expectations, without shouting or being abusive.

AndyinSwindon

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Re: Coach problems
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2017, 06:18:12 pm »
As an aside to this conversation (which I think is possibly close to going very off topic and becoming a crash course in sports psychology), I think there is also an interesting angle in terms of the contribution of the parent.  I am using the parent example, as it is the one with which I am most familiar, but it does apply to other influential characters.

My son is ten years old.  He has been skating since the end of December last year, after we both decided to learn to skate in order to play ice hockey.  We have both followed very different journeys, summarised as follows :-

Myself : Started learn to play hockey sessions within a week or two of learning skating.  I am quite a sensitive soul, despite having been in positions of authority in the past, but over the years have developed a much thicker skin and learned to cope with people fairly well.  I'm not a very social creature, but I am friendly to others.  My skating is progressing slowly, I get the ice time that I can, but like many others, I have to work for a living, and so my ice time is nowhere near as much as I would like.  My skating coaches have been very helpful, supportive, and friendly.  My ice hockey coaches, for the most part, have been a lot more abrasive, as you'd expect, but they have also been supportive, constructive, and helpful.  It's like skating in two different worlds, but because of the contexts in which they are employed, both work within those contexts.  If my LTS coach taught hockey, she would never maintain control.  If my hockey coaches taught LTS, then within that context, they would probably be accused of being too aggressive or harsh.

My son : Has, as most kids do, picked up skating like a duck to water and has left me in his tracks.  He progresses at an astronomical level.  I have made it clear to him, from the very start, that he is under no obligation to do this.  I want him to do it because he wants to do it, not because he thinks I want him to do it.  As a result, the only pressure really comes from his skating and hockey coaches.  His skating coach is excellent, and has a reputation as a very good kids coach, his hockey coaches are all seasoned hockey players, and also have excellent skills at dealing with the children on the ice.  My son loves playing hockey, and is aiming to get into the local academy.  I have encouraged him by telling him to just keep on doing what he's doing, and to enjoy the journey.

Not many weeks go by, where I don't see certain parents pushing their kids (and in many cases physically, not metaphorically) on the ice, barking orders at them, telling them off for wanting a break, or for wanting to play around instead of practicing hockey drills (I am , by the way, talking about public skate sessions at which this happens, not hockey sessions).  A lot of these parents are living vicariously, through their childrens achievements, to either rekindle or make up for the parents success or lack thereof.  I have seen children sitting crying on the ice, skating in tears, and generally miserable as a result of the constant barrage of 'harder, faster, better'.  That isn't going to be my son.

My cousins husband is football mad.  Throughout their lives, his two sons had football pushed down their throats.  Finished school? Football practice in the garden.  Weekends?  Football games & football practice.  It was always football, football, football.  They have now grown up into teenagers, and what has happened?  They have both turned their backs on football.  It wasn't their choice to play, but rather their fathers insistence that they do.

My son said to me the other weekend, he wants to be a professional hockey player, so I can be proud of him.  I replied 'just be a good person, and live a happy life, that's all I need to be proud'.  Until he skated, my son wasn't particularly sporty, and I wasn't going to push him into a particular sport of my choosing.  It had to be his choice, his sport.  We just had to find that sport.

I have read of professional top-of-their-class sportsmen that have it all, the championships, the fame, the money, and yet they have resented their parents for robbing them of a childhood.  That isn't going to be my son.

Don't get this out of context, I am in no way criticising other posters parenting skills, heaven knows I'm in no position, nor have any right, to do so.  But it could be that children brought up with 'sporty go-getter' parents need a different style of coaching than those that have been bought up in more, dare I say relaxed, environs?
Started skating 07.01.17
Currently working through NISA LTS Levels.
Currently wobbling through hockey LTP sessions.

black

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Re: Coach problems
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2017, 06:47:09 pm »
From what you've said both your daughter and yourself would agree that the current situation is not helping and that something needs to change.

Is the coach a NISA licensed? or a private coach?

Check here -> http://www.iceskating.org.uk/index.cfm/work-force-coaching/coaching/nisa-licensed-coach-levels-1-5-2017-2018/

NISA have a safeguarding policy; http://www.iceskating.org.uk/index.cfm/work-force-coaching/coaching/nisa-safeguarding-policies/

Set aside some time to read the 'Safeguarding and Protecting Young People Policy' and yes, all of it.

Plus the Introduction Letter, which has some contact details.

If the coach is private you will need to investigate the rink process, which varies.

I strongly advise if you do make inquires that you do so discreetly, and that the minimal number of people know about it.

And congratulations to your daughter for reaching level 4.



On the tangent topic; I'd prefer a Socrates over a Fletcher.
The greatest trick figure skaters ever pulled, was convincing the world it was easy.



 

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