Author Topic: Super Scary (Be Critical Please)  (Read 6473 times)

granita

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Re: Super Scary (Be Critical Please)
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2017, 06:13:39 pm »
Congratulations on the Level 1 pass! Good luck in Level 2.


Knee pads sound like a great idea. I think willingness to fall often tends to make you more relaxed and thus actually less likely to fall.
Passed level two field moves 29/5/12
Passed level two elements and free 17/6/14

Leif

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Re: Super Scary (Be Critical Please)
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2017, 08:29:13 am »
I too sharpen skates after ~30 hours. My helmet is a simple domed skateboard helmet, not a hockey one, cheaper too.

Regarding fitting skates, as said toes should be near the end. You can shove in small objects to check for space. I was able to insert a CR123A battery with room to spare hence I knew the fit was poor. Your heels should be locked when laced up ie no movement. Also undo the skates, lay a pencil across the skates, from the third eyelet from the top to the opposite one, and if the pencil touches the top of your foot, then the skate lacks depth.

You have basic skates which usually only come in one width, so they often are not a brilliant fit, and you might not have tried on different models, with different foot shapes, so your skates are probably not the best fit. But they are probably perfectly fine for learning until you start to get good. By the time you start on hockey stops and backwards crossovers, you might want to think about treating your feet to better skates

Congratulations on the Level 1 pass! Good luck in Level 2.


Knee pads sound like a great idea. I think willingness to fall often tends to make you more relaxed and thus actually less likely to fall.

I agree. And you skate better when relaxed. And in the unlikely event of a head bang, you survive, I speak as someone with two head bangs before I bought a helmet.

kenzie

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Re: Super Scary (Be Critical Please)
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2017, 10:32:29 pm »
I had a one to one private lesson today, with the same coach who takes my group lessons, and he was fabulous. Obviously, they cannot take the time in group lessons to focus on every individual, which I don't think is his fault, we had 8-10 people in my group, so it would be nearly impossible. So I've booked the next few weeks (he had a slot open) with him, because I honestly feel that in today's half an hour I progress way more than I have in group lessons.

But I'm going to continue with group lessons, because I like the social aspect, and any ice time is good time. Plus, I feel like when I get the basics down, the groups will be useful.

I'm still terrible, and I kept forgetting to bend my legs, but I think for the first time, I was actually close to skating today. I got a couple of videos, although not any really good ones, which I'll link below, and although I'm slow (one and two and one and two) and I seem to lean on one side, and I'm still resting on my inside edge on my right foot, I really feel like I'm not JUST walking now.

He went through rolling and pitching and it was a lot to take in, but it started to make sense, it was just trying to do everything at once that I found hard, but I guess that's why practice makes perfect.

What I found hardest was the "and", where you get your foot into position for the next push, I kept just placing it down, and realising it was in the wrong place.

But anyway, I know it doesn't look like much, but I feel so proud that I'm so close to skating now.

https://youtu.be/FtnY0H5DljI
https://youtu.be/q_9uWTfqcC0

My coach also recommended that I DO get a helmet, but I have no idea where to start. I think I will get a hockey one, as I'm going to play hockey eventually, and it makes sense to invest. But I have a big head, and so need to try the helmet on. Need to work out if there are any decent shops which sell them nearby.

It may be they are the right size but the wrong shape for your foot. If the insoles fit snugly into the skates then take them out and place your feet onto them - with the heel in place, if the toes go nearly to the end of the insole, falling short by a small number or mm, then they are probably the right length. If you can, try to find a more experienced skater with hockey skates and see if they can have a look at you and tell you what they think about the size and shape.

In terms of insoles, they will 'travel' with you from skate to skate, so if you upgrade in future, they won't be a lost investment.  If your gear is causing your pain, you will never reach your full potential, and it will turn an enjoyable pastime into a torturous chore.

Regarding fitting skates, as said toes should be near the end. You can shove in small objects to check for space. I was able to insert a CR123A battery with room to spare hence I knew the fit was poor. Your heels should be locked when laced up ie no movement. Also undo the skates, lay a pencil across the skates, from the third eyelet from the top to the opposite one, and if the pencil touches the top of your foot, then the skate lacks depth.

You have basic skates which usually only come in one width, so they often are not a brilliant fit, and you might not have tried on different models, with different foot shapes, so your skates are probably not the best fit. But they are probably perfectly fine for learning until you start to get good. By the time you start on hockey stops and backwards crossovers, you might want to think about treating your feet to better skates

So I just stepped on the insoles. My feet are probably 1cm from the tip, but they're definitely wider than the insoles, but as Leif said, the lower end hockeys don't seem to come in varying widths. They don't feel too big or slip when I skate though, if anything they feel snug. I think the Vapors (my skates) have very good heel lock, and the yellow superfeet have helped even more with that anyway.

I will try some of the "standard" tests tomorrow when I go for my skate.

The problem I have at the moment is I don't know any other hockey skaters, everyone who I do learn to skate with has figures, and even in the other levels they seem to all be figures. I know that's because it's a figure skating course, but I thought there would be more hockey players who'd want the fundamentals.

I'm tempted to go to another shop and get a second opinion.

Ah, if you can move insoles, then if these superfeet don't workout, I may investigate customs. My feet DID feel better today, but ached after 20 ice minutes, which is longer than I can normally go for usually.

I'm not sure I understand the point about pushing with your front or back foot/leg.  Your feet will/should usually be parallel when starting a push.  Whether going forwards or backwards, you should push to the side as much as/more than pushing back, but as you glide forward/backward your pushing foot will naturally get left behind you by which I mean where you were rather than where you are travelling to.  You bend BOTH legs to push.

So, after today's one to one, I think I was confused to, all this time, I've been thinking the leg behind you PUSHES, like you physically push with your back foot, when actually it's more of a knee bend lean into it. What I've said probably doesn't accurately describe it, but after today I realised where I was, and am still, going wrong.

Bending my knees was what I kept forgetting, and I also kept forgetting to get ready for the next push. But I think I do finally get it.

Thanks for the links to the videos by the way :).

I sharpen every 30 hours of use, roughly, and get a fairly light grind - little and often works best for me.  You can go a lot longer but your edges may start to slip.  I wouldn't leave it more than 60 hours. 

Finally, on the subject of skate sharpening, I get mine done about every 4-6 weeks.  For the sake of £6 it's worth it.  And don't wait for them to dull right down, as you will end up having to get used to having sharp edges all over again.  I have just had my ROH (the radius of hollow, which affects the depth of grind) changed from 1/2" to 5/8" - I get a better/faster glide, which was a bit scary to start, but it also means stops are easier (though not quite as abrupt) and I have to work my edges a little more.

So, do you guys have any recommendations for ROH? I am so clueless as to which I should get. It's so technical!!

Regarding helmets I do not wear one and do not want to, but it's a personal choice and if you think it might help then go for it.  I'm 50something and not very good so I must try not to worry about how I look - don't go down the road of thinking about how you look/how others see you because it will drive you mad and depress you.  There will always be someone better than you.  Most people won't even pay attention to you.  Some people might look down on you, but if you are trying your best then they are the idiot for doing that, not you, no matter how much better they are.  I prefer to judge people by their passion and effort, not their skill.

Thank you transmission, that is an excellent piece of advice. I'm such a conscious person, and it can be hard not let other people's opinions affect me, but I've discovered I'm not a natural skater, so I have to deal with that fact, and keep on persevering.

Kenzie - if you wear a helmet, it won't be a case of all the gear, no idea.  My second learn to play hockey session took place about 3 weeks after I started skating.  I turned up completely kitted out, and barely able to skate, but with enough passion to know that this will change.  Everyone was very supportive and encouraging, and I had no disparaging comments. 

I do understand as I was reluctant to pad up on my public skate sessions, thinking people would expect me to know what I'm doing, but nobody paid any attention, and when I chatted to those that did ask if I played, I explained that I was learning and just getting used to the gear, and learning to skate safely.

Both my coach and I think I'd be better off with a helmet, and I must say, since wearing knee pads I do feel more confident on the ice, so I think I will. Leif and Andy have convinced me. Now, I just need to figure out the right helmet for me, and that could take some doing.

I think that's my issue, is I don't want people to assume I know what I'm doing/think I think that I know what I'm doing when I don't. But it is just a few pads and helmet, and if that helps me skate then I guess it'll be worth it!

Congratulations on the Level 1 pass! Good luck in Level 2.

Knee pads sound like a great idea. I think willingness to fall often tends to make you more relaxed and thus actually less likely to fall.

Thanks Granita, I was so happy to have heard that I passed. I genuinely didn't expect to test, let alone pass. I know it's so simple, but four weeks ago I was clinging onto the side for dear life, so it feels like such an achievement.

Knee pads are a dream. I honestly don't feel a thing when I fall forward.

I too sharpen skates after ~30 hours. My helmet is a simple domed skateboard helmet, not a hockey one, cheaper too.

I agree. And you skate better when relaxed. And in the unlikely event of a head bang, you survive, I speak as someone with two head bangs before I bought a helmet.

This is definitely reassuring. I am terrified of smashing my head. I can just see it happening.

Leif

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Re: Super Scary (Be Critical Please)
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2017, 08:10:51 am »
Well done, you were indeed skating.  :D

Regarding a helmet, and other pads, my attitude is summed up as 'go to Skate Station'. They are near Guildford and they have a large selection. Yes you may get cheaper online, but I like to prod and poke and try on gear. I too have a big head, and the £20 basic helmet in large fits me perfectly. I saw no obvious safty advantage to the more expensive ones. Mind you, you might want a nice coloured one. Or a hockey helmet.

There is also a shop in Southampton which has hockey gear at bargain prices, much cheaper than SS, but a very limited range.

You can also get bargains online. I got some Forcefield elbow tubes for £20, compared to £60 normally. They are used by motorcyclists, and go under outer clothing.

spiralstatic

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Re: Super Scary (Be Critical Please)
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2017, 05:34:01 pm »
You've indeed improved a lot, congrats! :)

About ROH - The smaller the number, the sharper your blades are and thus the more grip you get. I don't know much about hockey, but I use a 7/16" and imo it's a nice balance between grip and speed, so I'd go with the hockey ROH that's closest to that. A good sharpener will be able to change your ROH though, so feel free to try different radii until you've found one you're satisfied with.

AndyinSwindon

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Re: Super Scary (Be Critical Please)
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2017, 11:46:03 pm »
Hi Kenzie, just a note on skate grinds (I had an in depth chat with my fellow LTS'ers on Saturday, and a lot of them weren't aware of how this works, and having read up on a lot of this with regards to hockey, and chatting to fellow players, it's one area in which I am fairly confident).

Firstly, there are two types of grind profile.  One is the standard hollow grind, which is based on a radius.  The second type is a flat bottomed 'V', which, is pretty much what it says on the tin.  The 'FBV' type isn't done by all skate sharpeners, and isn't quite so common, but other than saying it offers a lot of glide, AND a lot of 'edge', I won't say any more about it.

Ok, with regards to the skate grind.  Imagine the bottom of your skate, looking at it from the end.  When the steel is first produced, it hasn't been sharpened, and will be flat in profile.  This is useless for a skate blade, as it will slide without producing any grip at all.  What you need to do in order to overcome this, is to put an 'edge' on it.  It's this edge that digs into the ice, and provides grip.  However, the more grip you get, the less 'glide' you get, as the blade has to overcome more friction from the edge in order to move forward.  Therefore you need to find a compromise between the two.  Edges are absolutely fundamental to skating, it's how hockey players achieve tight turns, it's how you get a good stroke, and it's the basis of crossovers.

The skate sharpener will have a number of grinding wheels, all with difference radii.  For example, a common grind is 1/2".  This effectively means, that if you imagine looking at the blade from the end, and then imagine a 1" wheel making contact with the edge (therefore 1/2" radius), it will make a rounded groove in the blade.  The smaller the radius of this wheel, the deeper the groove, and the more pronounced the edges will be.  The edge does not change in sharpness, just in depth.  Therefore if you have a small radius of hollow, the groove will be deep, the edges pronounced, and stopping will be harder (as shaving the ice will take more effort), but you will easily feel the edges when cornering.  you will also require more effort to glide.  Conversely, a larger radius will give shallower edges, but will require less effort to glide. 

The ROH will vary from skater to skater, and will depend upon technique, usage, weight, ability, strength etc.  Contrary to belief, a lot of NHL skaters do NOT use deep grinds, as they require speed as well as grip.  In fact, as you get better on your edges, a shallow grind is just as effective for most skating, the school of thought being that it forces you to use good technique, rather than relying on your skates to do the work.  Most of the Pittsburgh Penguins for example, use a 1/2" grind.  Sidney Crosby (if you don't know him look him up on YouTube) has tended to vary from 7/16" (deepish), through 1/2" (fairly average) to 5/8" (less edge, more glide), and Crosby is pretty much incredible on his edges.

I started on a 1/2", and it was ok, but I found it quite grippy when doing hockey stops (I have a bit of extra 'momentum' around my mid-section), and went for a 5/8" cut.  This is only a difference of 1/8", but it has amazed me with the difference it has made.  My skates glide brilliantly (I can now keep pace with my 10yo), I can feel my edges, and I can stop with confidence, and no 'chattering'.

If you google 'hockey skate ROH profiles' or something along those lines, you'll find the pages, with diagrams, that have taught me all of this.  It sounds very technical to start with (by this time just before my LTS session I had amassed a small crowd wanting to know about edges), but it's pretty simple when you understand it.  The main thing is that everyone has a different requirement, and so don't let anyone tell you what you should have, only you will know when you have found the grind that suits you, and it will take trial and error.  Some skate sharpeners (mine included) will give you a free re-grind if your new ROH isn't right for you.  All I will say is, if you are having problems, try going a little shallower, but only a step at a time.  If you go a step shallower and it feels worser, try going back the other way.

I hope that this explains it fairly well?

And congrats on the level 1 :-)
Started skating 07.01.17
Currently working through NISA LTS Levels.
Currently wobbling through hockey LTP sessions.

santa-maria

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Re: Super Scary (Be Critical Please)
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2017, 05:09:42 am »
Hiya,
try to relax. You look very stiff and it limits your movement. I know it sounds easy to say and very hard to do but you will fall and it will hurt and then you get up and do it all over again. Because you seem to have caught a skating bug..Sorry about that ;D


I was very impressed with all the responses too, well done you lot..


And don't get too technical, just skate, that's the only way to progress from the beginning, really..
Enjoy  O0


PS: to black: See, it took a while but I can lol!
Life is just question of priorities...

For Fame, Glory and Cuddly toys..

black

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Re: Super Scary (Be Critical Please)
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2017, 08:30:55 pm »
https://youtu.be/FtnY0H5DljI
https://youtu.be/q_9uWTfqcC0


Looks like you have a little side-to-side ankle wobble in those clips; did you loose lace the top part?

How one laces is a personal thing, but for me the only ankle movement should be forwards/backwards.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 06:29:17 pm by black »
The greatest trick figure skaters ever pulled, was convincing the world it was easy.

katepilarr

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Re: Super Scary (Be Critical Please)
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2017, 11:43:04 pm »
without reading through all the answers - i have blue super feet insoles in my figure boots.  thay were recommneded by teh guy who fitted me with skates and help with pronating feet. yes they do take up space but tehy fit well with my boots. i also use them for rollerblade boots.
skating in Prague and Elgin, Scotland
working on L1 and L2 field moves, upright spin& backspin, single jumps upto loop
www.youtube.com/user/catepilarr

Leif

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Re: Super Scary (Be Critical Please)
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2017, 10:46:28 pm »
Well I never, this evening I met 'kenzie', and a very nice young woman she is too. And she didn't even call me grandad once.  ;D She's getting the hang of skating.  By the way I wear padded shorts with coccyx protection as well as the helmet. And I fall often, it's not something to be worried about, fear of falling is worse than falling.

Incidentally, regarding Superfeet, I bought mine at a local shop, and when I recently bought a top from them, asked about the Superfeet exchange policy. I was told that if I was not happy with them, they would refund the purchase price. So I went back home to collect the Superfeet, and I left them with the shop on Saturday, and heard on Monday that the makers have agreed to the refund, and it will be done next time I visit the shop. So, if you want some, buy from a reputable shop, and check they will honour the refund policy. You can't really lose can you.

Leif

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Re: Super Scary (Be Critical Please)
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2017, 07:44:06 am »
I was at Guildford last night, and saw Kenzie again. She has improved a lot, and is looking much more confidant and stable on the ice, even if she doesn't realise it. She tried the forwards snow plough. I can still recall struggling with it, and thinking I could not do it, but with regular practice, it eventually became second nature. :)



 

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