Author Topic: backwards lemons  (Read 4524 times)

Mr_mercury

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Re: backwards lemons
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2019, 01:20:10 PM »
Hi All,

I'm new here.

I started skating about 8 weeks ago, at first I was hugging the sides like my life depended on it.  Now I can skate quite confidentley and have started getting confident with crossovers.  I can perform forward lemons with hardly any effort.  But.....backwards lemons are my nemesis.  I find the amount of effort involved doubles.  Thats not a bad thing but I seem to really struggle to pull just one off.  Last week I managed to do two.  I watched a video that tells me to make a V shape and use the inside edge of my skates and push outwards.

My friend (who plays Ice Hockey) tells me to lean forward onto my toes.  I find the leaning onto my toes works better than pushing outwards but I get into a bad habbit of leaning my back forwards to a point i think I'm going to fall on my face.

Does anyone have any other pointers I can try Thursday?

WednesdayMarch

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Re: backwards lemons
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2019, 06:30:54 PM »
Everybody finds backwards lemons much more difficult than forwards ones.  Everybody.  I can remember exactly how impossible they felt when I first started - and that was 40 years ago!  But the feeling when you get the hang of them and find you can do lots of them, stop and then start again is indescribably fabulous.  Few things top it.  Trust me.  8)

Technique-wise, your hockey player friend isn't helping you by telling you to lean forwards towards the toes (I am assuming here that you're wearing figure skates but I could be wrong) and the video is much more to the point with the v-shape and pushing the feet outwards.  In order to get the blades to glide, you need to have your weight in the right place and for backward lemons, that place is slap bang in the middle of the blades, not the front.  In most of skating, you need to be aware of where your weight is and as the head is the heaviest part of you, it needs to be centered over your hips and they need to be centered over your feet and blades in order for you to have the best chance of (a) gliding properly and (b) not falling over.

The trick to backward lemons is not letting the feet go out too wide; the further they go out, the further you have to drag them back in.  You need lots of knee bend and use your thigh muscles to push your feet out from that v-shape just a short distance before pulling them back in to have the heels of the blades approaching a v-shape.  Rather than letting the heels touch, however, you need to bring the feet back parallel and then toes into the v-shape again so that you can do the next lemon.  It's slow and painful to start with and feels nigh-on impossible, but I promise you that it is possible and you will do it!

Try to work on a rhythm that sees you bending your knees as you push outwards and straightening them as you drag the feet back inwards.  If it helps, you can hold the hands of a friend who skates forwards and gives you a gentle push and steadying hand to help you get the feeling of the feet going out and coming back in again.  Be careful not to put any pressure on that friend's hands, though.  Do not be tempted to lean and have them hold you up and push you back - you need to use your own leg muscles and balance.  If you're not holding the hands of another skater, then keep yours out to the side, at hip or waist height to help you balance.

It can also help to enlist a friend to watch your back, as many people find actually moving backwards terrifying.  As you progress, it's easier to see behind you as most backwards skating involves looking behind you and pretty much moving sideways as much as backwards, but those lemons are blind.

Good luck.
Returned to the ice in Sept 2017 after a major leg injury in 1999. Skating in Graf Dance boots and MK Dance blades. It's still a bit slippery...

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: backwards lemons
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2019, 07:43:13 PM »

Agree with WM.
Definitely do not lean forwards.  IMO leaning forwards while skating backwards is the No. 1 thing that people get wrong, even after skating for years.  Do not get into that habit.

Taking a step back - The purpose of lemons is to learn how to apply edge pressure on an inside edge.  Discuss.  Edge pressure is fundamental to correct skating.  I don't think lemons should feel slidy - you should be applying edge pressure and making a crunching (not scratching) noise.

Mr_mercury

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Re: backwards lemons
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2019, 08:54:24 AM »
Thanks everyone, this is really helpful advice.  I'll put a lot of this into practice on Thursday when I attend another lesson and free skate.  It has been incredibly frustrating to get any kind of motion but even doing 2 very small backwards lemons had a great feeling of success.  I cannot wait until it finally clicks.

WM, I am using hockey skates as I want to learn to play hockey (recreationaly, im too old for full contact hockey now).

WednesdayMarch

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Re: backwards lemons
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2019, 12:12:09 PM »
WM, I am using hockey skates as I want to learn to play hockey (recreationaly, im too old for full contact hockey now).

Ah...  You Hockey Boys do like to make life harder for yourselves.  ;D  Leif can probably give you some hockey-skater specific hints and tips as he's pretty hot on technique.  He'll no doubt show up when he's back from his latest training session.

But do resist the temptation to lean forwards too far or you'll end up doing a face plant, as there are no toe picks to stop you.
Returned to the ice in Sept 2017 after a major leg injury in 1999. Skating in Graf Dance boots and MK Dance blades. It's still a bit slippery...

Leif

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Re: backwards lemons
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2019, 10:21:40 PM »
Ah...  You Hockey Boys do like to make life harder for yourselves.  ;D  Leif can probably give you some hockey-skater specific hints and tips as he's pretty hot on technique. 

Mmm, I wish. I can only echo the advice given earlier. A good knee bend is essential, and just practice and practice. Itís all about learning edge control, a nice exercise. I did once make some people laugh loudly when I did lemons and my feet went too wide .... ouch.

Sorry if this point has been made, and itís something I only realised recently, but skating is an athletic pursuit, requiring good muscle control and flexibility, and off ice gym work, especially stretching is extremely benefit. It will improve balance.

He'll no doubt show up when he's back from his latest training session.

I have my first ice skating lesson with a very talented skater and coach this Saturday. I only hope she can tolerate my ineptitude.

Mr_mercury

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Re: backwards lemons
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2019, 02:16:32 PM »
So, I had a lesson again on Thursday and put all the advice into practice.  It worked.  ensure my knees were bent, finally managed to encourage my feet to to create the correct V shape and I just began to move.

I did it again and again until i realised I'd managed to move half way down the rink and it was an amazing feeling.  WM you were right about just how satisfying it is.

A huge thank you for the advise because, oh boy did it work.   O0

WednesdayMarch

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Re: backwards lemons
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2019, 02:19:02 PM »
Well, that's just made my day!  Well done!  8)
Returned to the ice in Sept 2017 after a major leg injury in 1999. Skating in Graf Dance boots and MK Dance blades. It's still a bit slippery...

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: backwards lemons
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2019, 02:34:54 PM »

Good to hear.Lemon races are fun.

Leif

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Re: backwards lemons
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2019, 07:02:52 PM »
Well done, lemons are fun.