Author Topic: "Foundation" moves that should be practiced regularly?  (Read 2320 times)

enelam

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"Foundation" moves that should be practiced regularly?
« on: March 11, 2014, 02:51:00 pm »
Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and new-ish to skating. I started skating last year at the age of 30 just because it was something I’d always wanted to try. I’m currently on Skate UK Level 7 and find myself increasingly addicted – nobody warned me beforehand how addictive skating is!

Anyway, I was wondering if there are certain basic skills that good skaters regularly practice to build or maintain a good foundation. For example, I played a couple of musical instruments growing up, and there are scales and etudes and seemingly basic exercises that even professional musicians will practice for hours every day. These exercises are boring and nobody likes doing them, but they have to be done. As a kid, I hated these and rushed through them as perfunctorily as I could so that I could play the “fun” pieces, all because I didn’t have the discipline or maturity to realise their importance.

Similarly, I believe even advanced ballet dancers regularly practice the exact same foundation skills that are taught in newbie ballet classes, albeit far more gracefully and aesthetically pleasingly.

Now that I’m older and (arguably) wiser, I see the value in going back to basics, learning to do things properly and building a good foundation. So I’m wondering – are there certain “foundation” ice skating skills that even advanced skaters force themselves to spend a lot of time practicing, similar to scales and etudes in music, or barre exercises in ballet? I’m not talking about stuff that people think they’re weak on (although those obviously require practice as well), but stuff that people will regularly do as a matter of course in their training because it’s good for them, like eating your 5-a-day in fruit and vegetables.

Anyway, would welcome any thoughts people might have on this – thanks in advance!

Ice Dragon

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Re: "Foundation" moves that should be practiced regularly?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2014, 05:30:43 pm »
I think forwards and backwards inside and outside edges are important foundation moves that should be practiced regularly, as well as forwards and backwards crossovers. Also just simple forwards and backwards stroking is very important to practice.

Loops

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Re: "Foundation" moves that should be practiced regularly?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2014, 05:50:04 pm »
Yes- this used to be called "patch" or officially "school figures".  They are essentially figure 8's done with the four basic edges and a variety of embellishments.  They were taken out of competition in '92 and eventually dropped out of mainstream skating.  I loved them, and found them meditative, but most people tolerated them.  They've been replaced by "moves in the field."

Some rinks do still have time for figures (note, this kind of "patch" is not to be confused with current terminology where "patch" is just freestyle practice ice), but you'll find it few and far between.  I think somewhere in London they actually do the even older style of figures where beautiful designs were carved into the ice.  Hopefully someone from that area can comment for you on that.

Here is a clip of ice capades, ca 1985 where they start a program by skating a figure called a "back outside change loop":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4d9HL-X6q08

and in the animated "She's a good skate Charlie Brown", you can see peppermint patty doing some figures from the 3rd  test (double three's iir).

enelam

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Re: "Foundation" moves that should be practiced regularly?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2014, 06:45:50 pm »
Thanks for the replies! I had a sniff around for YouTube videos of school figures and came across these videos of men's compulsory figures in the 1988 Calgary Olympics, which offer good explanations of what they are and what they require:

(For some reason I'm not allowed to post external links so I had to remove the "www." From the URLs, you'll have to add it back on)

youtube.com/watch?v=ZDdLXYNiS9k&feature=youtube_gdata_player
youtube.com/watch?v=NJDOxzANY1s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Will see if I can find someone who can teach me how to do them. Will also start concentrating on stroking and crossovers!
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 06:47:47 pm by enelam »

Loops

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Re: "Foundation" moves that should be practiced regularly?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2014, 07:03:59 pm »
If you can find someone to teach you those, that's bril- even the basic ones are harder than you'd expect.  They're all based on the four...(or 8 if you count the two different feet) basic edges though- forward outside, forward inside and back outside back inside (then on the right and left feet).

If you have those solidly, you'll be in good shape.   You can practice them in half circles (e.g. RFO -->LFO--> RFO-->LFO) on the end lines or down the long axis of the rink. There are several youtube vids highlighting figures.  My favorite is from the '92 olympics that shows the skaters skating them, then symbolically last figure zamboni'd away.

taka

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Re: "Foundation" moves that should be practiced regularly?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2014, 07:27:11 pm »
I think at your level you are now learning some of the things that will become the foundations of a lot of your future skating. Inside and outside edges (forwards and backwards), inside and outside 3 turns, change of edges, mohawks, forwards and backwards stroking and forwards and backwards crossovers are all things that you will need work on forevermore really and are things you will learn in the higher skateUK levels.

If you want to do free skating, 3 turns or mohawks are how you will learn entries to many jumps and use in connecting footwork. If you want to do dance then you will use them in various dances (just with neater feet! ;) ). Everything on skates needs control of your edges and crossovers come in handy to get from A to B.

Compulsory figures have been somewhat replaced by field moves (though I'm not entirely convinced FM's are as good for teaching the same levels of control as figures!). If you decide to go on to do test NISA national level tests the 1st few levels are things that crop up in skateUK (and passport, depending on whether your rink is following the old or new syllabus). The ability level needed to pass it skateUK is lower than for a pass at passport level, which is lower than the level expected at NISA level tests.

NISA Level 1st field moves (FM) test is outside and inside forwards edges up the rink, back crosses to landing position, crossovers in a figure of 8 and forwards spirals in a straight line on both legs. (See here - p27-30). Level 2 FM is back edges (inside and outside), crossrolls, 3 turns and an inside mohawk exercise! All things you will learn in SkateUK and passport and be practising forevermore! :)

Enjoy you skating addiction! O0 I think we're all addicted to it here! :D
:)

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: "Foundation" moves that should be practiced regularly?
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2014, 08:49:38 pm »
Yes- this used to be called "patch" or officially "school figures".  They are essentially figure 8's done with the four basic edges and a variety of embellishments.  They were taken out of competition in '92 and eventually dropped out of mainstream skating.  I loved them, and found them meditative, but most people tolerated them.  They've been replaced by "moves in the field."

Some rinks do still have time for figures (note, this kind of "patch" is not to be confused with current terminology where "patch" is just freestyle practice ice), but you'll find it few and far between.  I think somewhere in London they actually do the even older style of figures where beautiful designs were carved into the ice.  Hopefully someone from that area can comment for you on that.

Here is a clip of ice capades, ca 1985 where they start a program by skating a figure called a "back outside change loop":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4d9HL-X6q08

and in the animated "She's a good skate Charlie Brown", you can see peppermint patty doing some figures from the 3rd  test (double three's iir).


Thanks for the link to that clip - I have never seen synchronized figures like that before.  I love loop figures, though my BO ones are still a bit scratchy the other 3 are not too shabby and mastering them has been one of the greatest satisfactions I have had as a skater.


Foundation moves I would say all 8 edges, preferably aiming to hold for a full circle so you learn to really lean and be on an edge and check rotation and not fall off the edge all the time which I think can happen doing half circles.  And forward and backward stroking (proper backward stroking with a proper strike and free leg extention) and crossovers at the 4 corners of the rink.  I always found Russian stroking (crossovers forward or backward with a change of circle so you alternate clockwise and anticlockwise direction crossovers) a good way to go clockwise a bit without risking crashing into people.  But really edges, you can never do enough edges, if you can't hold an edge you can't really skate.




Loops

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Re: "Foundation" moves that should be practiced regularly?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2014, 09:50:52 pm »

I have never seen synchronized figures like that before. 


I know- isn't that the coolest thing!?  I had only started forward loops when I quit, and they were fun (although mine were a disaster), and I never got to the back ones  :'(

I do agree that doing the full-on 8 is better than the half circles.  I was thinking of the preliminary figures test (in the US) which was those half circles, done on outside and inside edges, along with the 8's.  Plus my coaches here, only one of whom did figures, always start questioning me like I'm a nutter when they see me setting up on the hockey circles (which are too big).  I'm having trouble holding my RFO (post-baby hip change????) and I want to do those 8's to practice it and they always stop me "What are you doing? You must skate it like a dancer."  It's SOOOOO FRUSTRATING!  I don't know how many other coaches are of that ilk these days.....

skatebrasil

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Re: "Foundation" moves that should be practiced regularly?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2014, 08:51:00 pm »
Best to always practice your basics . I was always lazy at practicing some of my basics ....I think mainly because when I started ice dance after many years off I thought that it would be the same,so really never put all my effort in and just tried to continue where I stopped!! Of course I soon realised that I would have to go back to the beginning and build up again .Thankfully, working on all my basics and Annie's Edges on a weekly basis now has really helped my skating control evolve in a quick space of time whilst everything else ,technique,control and style has all fallen into place.
Basics to practice : fo / fi / Bo / bi / fwd chasses / bwd chasses / runs in a circle both directions fwd and bwd / slaloms fwd and bwds / 3 turns on an outside and inside edge 3's / outside and inside Mohawks / run chasse run both directions  on fwd and if you are really brave backwards too !! Get your coach to take you through them correctly because you want your body to be in the right place and it not will fail to be in the wrong edges .   :D

skatebrasil

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Re: "Foundation" moves that should be practiced regularly?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2014, 08:52:48 pm »
' should read the right edge '  :o



 

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