Author Topic: What didnt you achieve this week all help welcome  (Read 94410 times)

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: What didnt you achieve this week all help welcome
« Reply #286 on: October 08, 2017, 01:30:31 pm »
Thanks for the info.
Yes you are pivoting on your rocker (the slightly curvier part of the blade).  With a 2-foot turn you are doing a forward outside (FO) 3 turn with the inside foot and a forward inside (FI) 3 turn with the outside foot.  Going into the turn your inside foot should be on an outside edge and your outside foot on an inside edge.  The amount of lean on each should be pretty much identical.  What most beginners have trouble with is getting the inside foot on an outside edge.  Try  really focusing on the edges you are on when doing a curve.  With a two foot turn you do 2 pivots, simultaneously, one on each rocker.  I'd have to try one to be sure but I think the feet should be parallel so neither foot too far in front or behind.  By lifting your inside leg after the turn you are simulating the exit from an FO 3 turn.  If you were to lift the outside leg after the turn you should be on an outside edge with the inside foot and you would be simulating the exit from an FI 3 turn.  (On exit from the 2 foot turn you should be on an outside edge with the inside foot and an inside edge with the outside foot, so opposite to entry).
What happens when you turn is that your free side (the half of your body on the outside of the circle) comes round (forward) which pushes your body to rotate around the blade or blades.  The reason you are going on a too-tight circle if you take more speed into it is that you're not used to stopping the rotation of the body so your free side keeps pushing you round.  You will need to turn to "check" the momentum of the turn by using your arms, shoulders, core muscles, lats, obliques, to stop yourself rotating round out of control.  Try searching on YT for checking a 3 turn.  It's hard to explain (for me anyway).  Sinking down into your knees will help you.  Eventually stretching the free leg back rather than letting it pull you round, but I suspect at the moment your coach wants you to keep it near the skating leg.  Inside edges are hard to check, even for experienced skaters.
I think the general aim of 2-foot turns is to get you used to turning without the fear of skating on one foot.  Lifting the leg after the turn is a preparation for doing the one foot version.  An alternative is to go into the turn one footed and come out two footed, which can help if you're not good on back edges on one foot.
Even a 2-foot turn is hard to do well and there are many factors at work.  Try not to be discouraged and enjoy the process.  I've probably given you too much information.

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: What didnt you achieve this week all help welcome
« Reply #287 on: October 08, 2017, 01:36:28 pm »
Yes if you turn to the left then after turning focus on pushing your right shoulder back behind you and not letting it come round. 
My coach taught me to pre-rotate the arms on 3 turns to aid control. Turning to the left you would have left arm in front and right behind. Before you turn, change so that right arm is your m front and left behind.  You are then better placed to keep the right shoulder back to check the rotation, and you also eliminate flailing arms.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 01:54:00 pm by transmissionoftheflame »

Snufkin

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Re: What didnt you achieve this week all help welcome
« Reply #288 on: October 09, 2017, 09:05:26 am »
Thank you everyone, that's really helpful. I do think it's supposed to be a stepping stone into 3 turns but I find my 3 turns are coming along better than the two-foot. However the two-foot turn is itself part of the grade so I think my coach will still want me to do it. I will try to focus on keeping my feet close together and turning at exactly the same time in case that's where the problem is coming from, and I will practice the exercises you have suggested transmissionoftheflame.
Started skating August 2017

katepilarr

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Re: What didnt you achieve this week all help welcome
« Reply #289 on: October 09, 2017, 12:34:58 pm »
when you say you can do a three turn -  can you do it correctly? if so, i wouldnt worry about this two feet exercise. the exercises are ment to help you to prepare for the actual move but they dont always work for everyone.  you might be able to do the move and not the exercise in some cases.
what transmissionoftheflame suggested with one foot glides is great and will help you withskating overall.
three turns are tricky though. i still cant control my three turns much and i hate practising them. but they are getting  better with stronger core.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 12:43:03 pm by katepilarr »
skating in Prague and Elgin, Scotland
working on L1 and L2 field moves, upright spin& backspin, single jumps upto loop
www.youtube.com/user/catepilarr

katepilarr

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Re: What didnt you achieve this week all help welcome
« Reply #290 on: October 09, 2017, 12:38:40 pm »

I think I'm not understanding part of the physics of the turn. With a 3 turn I see how it works because the single point of contact with the ice is acting as a pivot, so you don't have any resistance against the ice when you turn. With the two-foot turn, the pivot point would be an imaginary point between your two blades. With two points on the ice, it seems to me that you will always be doing a tiny circle, and cause some resistance when your blades drag.
 :) I'm going to try and budget for some one on one lessons starting next month so hopefully I will get these types of problems worked out.

with two feet you do a pivot for each foot.
one to one lesson is a great idea if you can get one.
skating in Prague and Elgin, Scotland
working on L1 and L2 field moves, upright spin& backspin, single jumps upto loop
www.youtube.com/user/catepilarr

Snufkin

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Re: What didnt you achieve this week all help welcome
« Reply #291 on: October 09, 2017, 12:47:53 pm »
I only started on the 3 turn yesterday so, no they're not perfect ;D I just mean that I can retain my momentum through them which I can't with two-foot turns. Thanks for your advice!
Started skating August 2017

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: What didnt you achieve this week all help welcome
« Reply #292 on: October 09, 2017, 05:31:06 pm »
There's more to go wrong with 2 feet.  If one foot doesn't turn cleanly it'll slow you down.  Maybe you're scratching a bit with one of the toepicks.  It's probably still a bit easier than doing it one-footed, but not much.  I learned to spin one-footed and years later struggled to spin two footed - they are similar but not the same and again there are two feet to get right.
One to one will really help you, in conjunction with group, especially as it sounds like you pick things up quickly and have a good understanding of what's going on.
The other mistake I see a lot of beginners make with 3 turns is to have to "force" them round as a consequence of not spending long enough on the edge.  If I get on say an outside edge and don't consciously hold my free side back then the edge deepens and pressure from the free side gradually increases until the turn happens without me really making it happen.  You should be able to hold an edge then release it at the point you want to turn.  It helps to have a bit of speed, though you don't have to be going "fast" - just gliding.  When you get more confident with edges try to play with this so you feel what's happening.  I find turns done from holding an edge for longer tend to be cleaner and less scratchy.  I remember pushing onto an edge from standing and almost immediately trying to turn and the results were not good.

Snufkin

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Re: What didnt you achieve this week all help welcome
« Reply #293 on: October 09, 2017, 05:54:44 pm »
That's really useful actually. I feel like my 3 turns go round very easily (as my coach says, your foot 'wants to turn' if you set it up properly) but with the two-foot turn I really feel like I have to throw myself round. I do think I probably scratch with one of the toepicks or am dragging one of my edges sideways slightly on the two-foot. It feels like there is some resistance on the turn which isn't there on the 3 turn. Thank you so much for all of this information, it really helps talking to other experienced skaters as there aren't really any experienced adult skaters in my sessions who might want to give me tips.
Started skating August 2017

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: What didnt you achieve this week all help welcome
« Reply #294 on: October 09, 2017, 06:19:16 pm »
Yes, focus on what both feet are doing.  If you can do one-footed FO 3s but not FI 3s then it might be the outside foot (which is on an inside edge) which is not going round cleanly.  People usually find FI turns harder than FO - somehow it seems to turn easier from the outside edge.


The Sacred Voice

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Re: What didnt you achieve this week all help welcome
« Reply #295 on: October 27, 2017, 02:25:17 pm »
Things I didn't achieve this week? Pretty much everything! Half term's on at my rink and the public sessions are flooded with kids. I know that these big intakes of people are what help keep rinks open, but it doesn't do much for my own productivity. At least it's a week break from skating for me, I guess?

I've read a lot of adult skating blogs that say they struggle with doing things in public sessions. I know they're busy, but I'm pretty patient and wait for gaps in the crowd to do bigger things (practise a jump or something) so even though I can't practise something bigger over and over continuously (because I'm always waiting for a gap after each attempt) then I can usually get a few things off in between smaller stuff (my basic upright spin needs load of work anyway). My main problem is the officious rink guard skating over and being like "could you keep your free leg down please?" anytime I do ANYTHING, even though I've absolutely checked that there's no way I'm going to spear someone in a move.

Unfortunately, due to various timing complexities with when I can be at the rink, it's hard to be there for a decent amount of time when a patch session is also on that I could go to instead or I'd just do that :(
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 03:14:58 pm by The Sacred Voice »
I'm blogging about my skating journey, please read along at dontexcelaxel.blogspot.com

transmissionoftheflame

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Re: What didnt you achieve this week all help welcome
« Reply #296 on: October 27, 2017, 03:24:18 pm »
Some rinks are fine with spinning and jumping on public sessions.  Maybe where you are you don't have a choice.  There are several in London that allow it - in fact I think ALL the London rinks are generally OK with it.  It's frustrating.  I understand the reason up to a point but there are many ways of being dangerous.  I think it depends on how busy it is and how careful you are.  There are lots of people who are dangerous whatever they do.  The trouble is places like to have catch-all rules so they don't have to use discretion.  It's depressing.



 

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